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	<title>Comments on: Pilfered &#8211;  A Cool New Online Mag With A Provocative Name</title>
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	<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/</link>
	<description>The first stop in your photographic life.</description>
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		<title>By: Joannie Fritzman</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-565286</link>
		<dc:creator>Joannie Fritzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 07:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-565286</guid>
		<description>hi and appreciate the info - I have definitely picked up new things through here. I however noticed a few technical issues browsing this website. I had been thinking about if your website hosting is alright? Not that I am filing a complaint, but sluggish loading times might probably influence your position in google and can hurt your high quality articles on this site. Anyway I will be putting this Rss feed to my reader and can look out for much more of your helpful posts..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi and appreciate the info &#8211; I have definitely picked up new things through here. I however noticed a few technical issues browsing this website. I had been thinking about if your website hosting is alright? Not that I am filing a complaint, but sluggish loading times might probably influence your position in google and can hurt your high quality articles on this site. Anyway I will be putting this Rss feed to my reader and can look out for much more of your helpful posts..</p>
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		<title>By: Lago vista Pest Control</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-388153</link>
		<dc:creator>Lago vista Pest Control</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-388153</guid>
		<description>Glad I found your article on yahoo when I was surfing the web. Good STUFF!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad I found your article on yahoo when I was surfing the web. Good STUFF!</p>
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		<title>By: Goodbye Pilfered Magazine ... &#124; Mmminteresting.</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-344656</link>
		<dc:creator>Goodbye Pilfered Magazine ... &#124; Mmminteresting.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-344656</guid>
		<description>[...] conversation about Pilfered can be found at the Copyright Alliance (here), PhotoInduced (here), the Copyright Zone (here), amid others. Â It appears they intend to keep the site going, though [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] conversation about Pilfered can be found at the Copyright Alliance (here), PhotoInduced (here), the Copyright Zone (here), amid others. Â It appears they intend to keep the site going, though [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Copyright Alliance Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Infringing Site &#8216;Re-Imagining Our Perspective&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-344644</link>
		<dc:creator>The Copyright Alliance Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Infringing Site &#8216;Re-Imagining Our Perspective&#8217;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-344644</guid>
		<description>[...] permission or compensation.&#8221; One founder said Pilfered was a modern Robin Hood (see the third comment on this third-party blog that still posts some of the Digital Utopian rhetoric of the founders) although Robin Hood stole [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] permission or compensation.&#8221; One founder said Pilfered was a modern Robin Hood (see the third comment on this third-party blog that still posts some of the Digital Utopian rhetoric of the founders) although Robin Hood stole [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Brabyn</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-344193</link>
		<dc:creator>David Brabyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-344193</guid>
		<description>June Iverson: &quot;Ask first and give the payment and/or credit required or donâ€™t use it, period. If you canâ€™t figure out who to ask, donâ€™t use it.&quot;

Simple, moral, legal and so easy to apply. Why is it so difficult for people to understand?

Anyway shameless Pilfered mag is now backtracking in face of the outrage from the photo community. From their updated homepage: &quot;we are officially re-imagining our perspective&quot;.

Good riddance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>June Iverson: &#8220;Ask first and give the payment and/or credit required or donâ€™t use it, period. If you canâ€™t figure out who to ask, donâ€™t use it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Simple, moral, legal and so easy to apply. Why is it so difficult for people to understand?</p>
<p>Anyway shameless Pilfered mag is now backtracking in face of the outrage from the photo community. From their updated homepage: &#8220;we are officially re-imagining our perspective&#8221;.</p>
<p>Good riddance.</p>
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		<title>By: June Iverson</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-343864</link>
		<dc:creator>June Iverson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-343864</guid>
		<description>Basically, the message is &quot;we want to use your stuff and our rights to have it should supercede your rights to be asked first or to say &#039;no&#039;, And if we&#039;re not sure who it belongs to that means we can just take it anyway.&quot;. So, it&#039;s the &quot;new web?&quot; Why not the new &quot;real world?&quot; How about if I take some art pieces from your wallet, you know, those portraits of George, Ben, et al., without asking you, simply because I want it and I think it&#039;s for the greater good. I&#039;m sure those of you supporting this concept won&#039;t mind if I take your car for a couple of weeks. I can&#039;t figure out who it belongs to or I&#039;d so ask first and give credit for helping me out with transportation. Maybe someone cool and influential will see me driving it and want borrow it, too!

Bad enough that those commissioning art try to pay less and less, not a living wage even before trying to buy and maintain the equipment needed to create it. But to be told the work is worth being shown to prop up the website creators ego but the actual creators of the works are not important enough to be asked first nor have their copyright respected - they should feel honored to have their work stolen? This from supposed creative professionals?

And, what about the subjects of the photographs? Do they also have no rights simply because you &quot;want it&quot;? They gave model releases to the creating photographers to use their images. They knew they should be able to assume by law that the images were in the creative control of the photographer in whom they placed their trust. They didn&#039;t give permisson for some supposed Robin Hood to steal their likenesses to promote an agenda based on selfishness.  

Straight up, without advance permission it is stealing. Ask first and give the payment and/or credit required or don&#039;t use it, period. If you can&#039;t figure out who to ask, don&#039;t use it. Just as with the idea of borrowing your car or money from your wallet, if permission wasn&#039;t asked and given in advance, it&#039;s stealing. Your can try to spin it with whatever BSspeak you want but your words convince no one but yourself. I&#039;m sure the car thief has a great line of justification as well. He or she is only expressing themselves through the art of carjacking after all.

The creators of that site are sociopaths with no moral conscience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basically, the message is &#8220;we want to use your stuff and our rights to have it should supercede your rights to be asked first or to say &#8216;no&#8217;, And if we&#8217;re not sure who it belongs to that means we can just take it anyway.&#8221;. So, it&#8217;s the &#8220;new web?&#8221; Why not the new &#8220;real world?&#8221; How about if I take some art pieces from your wallet, you know, those portraits of George, Ben, et al., without asking you, simply because I want it and I think it&#8217;s for the greater good. I&#8217;m sure those of you supporting this concept won&#8217;t mind if I take your car for a couple of weeks. I can&#8217;t figure out who it belongs to or I&#8217;d so ask first and give credit for helping me out with transportation. Maybe someone cool and influential will see me driving it and want borrow it, too!</p>
<p>Bad enough that those commissioning art try to pay less and less, not a living wage even before trying to buy and maintain the equipment needed to create it. But to be told the work is worth being shown to prop up the website creators ego but the actual creators of the works are not important enough to be asked first nor have their copyright respected &#8211; they should feel honored to have their work stolen? This from supposed creative professionals?</p>
<p>And, what about the subjects of the photographs? Do they also have no rights simply because you &#8220;want it&#8221;? They gave model releases to the creating photographers to use their images. They knew they should be able to assume by law that the images were in the creative control of the photographer in whom they placed their trust. They didn&#8217;t give permisson for some supposed Robin Hood to steal their likenesses to promote an agenda based on selfishness.  </p>
<p>Straight up, without advance permission it is stealing. Ask first and give the payment and/or credit required or don&#8217;t use it, period. If you can&#8217;t figure out who to ask, don&#8217;t use it. Just as with the idea of borrowing your car or money from your wallet, if permission wasn&#8217;t asked and given in advance, it&#8217;s stealing. Your can try to spin it with whatever BSspeak you want but your words convince no one but yourself. I&#8217;m sure the car thief has a great line of justification as well. He or she is only expressing themselves through the art of carjacking after all.</p>
<p>The creators of that site are sociopaths with no moral conscience.</p>
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		<title>By: Photoinduced.com</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-307792</link>
		<dc:creator>Photoinduced.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-307792</guid>
		<description>[...] first feature film with Scott Caan, who starred/wrote/ produced it called &#8220;Mercy&#8221;, and he stirred up the photo pot quite a bit with his online magazine &#8220;Pilfered&#8221; (yes, there is some nudity). So we [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] first feature film with Scott Caan, who starred/wrote/ produced it called &#8220;Mercy&#8221;, and he stirred up the photo pot quite a bit with his online magazine &#8220;Pilfered&#8221; (yes, there is some nudity). So we [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Privacy</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-301680</link>
		<dc:creator>Privacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-301680</guid>
		<description>Interesting..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting..</p>
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		<title>By: DonS</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-300416</link>
		<dc:creator>DonS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-300416</guid>
		<description>Hope they post a whole bunch pilfered from Getty or Corbis: they&#039;ll be looking at some big bills for stripping metadata, unlicensed use, creation of orphan works, theft, lack of attribution etc etc etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope they post a whole bunch pilfered from Getty or Corbis: they&#8217;ll be looking at some big bills for stripping metadata, unlicensed use, creation of orphan works, theft, lack of attribution etc etc etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Sleep</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-294623</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Sleep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 16:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-294623</guid>
		<description>I tend to forget that US citizens have a different standard of politeness than UK, where let&#039;s just say, passionate debate tends to be less deferential. Or maybe it&#039;s fear of concealed handguns in the US.

In the context of photography, rather than art, this is a life and death struggle. Pilfered is only a small incursion, it seems particularly egregious that senior, well-known photographers don&#039;t think they have a duty of care toward less established colleagues. I&#039;m not referring to the creative intention,  but what sort of example is it that use without asking or attribution is OK?

I think you&#039;re mistaken about fair use legality. Any photo yearbook or anthology could make the same claim to education exceptions. The new digital provisions are undermined by a redistributable PDF and removal of creators&#039; metadata.  I still haven&#039;t seen any defence of use without asking or attribution, possibly because it&#039;s indefensible, probably because nobody cares.

Clearly I haven&#039;t struck any resonances with anyone&#039;s conscience. I&#039;ll shut up now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to forget that US citizens have a different standard of politeness than UK, where let&#8217;s just say, passionate debate tends to be less deferential. Or maybe it&#8217;s fear of concealed handguns in the US.</p>
<p>In the context of photography, rather than art, this is a life and death struggle. Pilfered is only a small incursion, it seems particularly egregious that senior, well-known photographers don&#8217;t think they have a duty of care toward less established colleagues. I&#8217;m not referring to the creative intention,  but what sort of example is it that use without asking or attribution is OK?</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re mistaken about fair use legality. Any photo yearbook or anthology could make the same claim to education exceptions. The new digital provisions are undermined by a redistributable PDF and removal of creators&#8217; metadata.  I still haven&#8217;t seen any defence of use without asking or attribution, possibly because it&#8217;s indefensible, probably because nobody cares.</p>
<p>Clearly I haven&#8217;t struck any resonances with anyone&#8217;s conscience. I&#8217;ll shut up now.</p>
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		<title>By: T. Vernon</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-294550</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Vernon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 08:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-294550</guid>
		<description>Tony Sleep - mind blowing and eloquent comments on copyright of images. I have rarely read a better argument. What is really sad is that many who oppose you here don&#039;t appear to have a good intellectual grasp on the issues. I don&#039;t say this to condemn or demean them, it&#039;s a common, shared &quot;whoopie, it&#039;s on the web, I downloaded it, it belongs to me&quot; attitude. I suspect that those who have devoted their lives to perfecting their craft (whether that be photography, painting or illustration) are perhaps best equipped to understand the logical and disastrous end result of the stealing of other peoples images.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony Sleep &#8211; mind blowing and eloquent comments on copyright of images. I have rarely read a better argument. What is really sad is that many who oppose you here don&#8217;t appear to have a good intellectual grasp on the issues. I don&#8217;t say this to condemn or demean them, it&#8217;s a common, shared &#8220;whoopie, it&#8217;s on the web, I downloaded it, it belongs to me&#8221; attitude. I suspect that those who have devoted their lives to perfecting their craft (whether that be photography, painting or illustration) are perhaps best equipped to understand the logical and disastrous end result of the stealing of other peoples images.</p>
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		<title>By: KP</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-294408</link>
		<dc:creator>KP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 20:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-294408</guid>
		<description>@Tony Sleep - Why all the hostility?

Your argument is  &quot;USE WITHOUT ASKING, USE WITHOUT ATTRIBUTION&quot; and then you continue your battle by insulting people that support the mag.

This mag actually does abide by fair use doctrine under US Copyright Law - read carefully and you will see that too, there are new amendments with regards to digital transmissions.  Clearly, there is no ill will behind the mag - stop demonizing it.

On a side note, I gotta say, you are quite the writer - you should use your powers for good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tony Sleep &#8211; Why all the hostility?</p>
<p>Your argument is  &#8220;USE WITHOUT ASKING, USE WITHOUT ATTRIBUTION&#8221; and then you continue your battle by insulting people that support the mag.</p>
<p>This mag actually does abide by fair use doctrine under US Copyright Law &#8211; read carefully and you will see that too, there are new amendments with regards to digital transmissions.  Clearly, there is no ill will behind the mag &#8211; stop demonizing it.</p>
<p>On a side note, I gotta say, you are quite the writer &#8211; you should use your powers for good.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Sleep</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-294361</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Sleep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 15:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-294361</guid>
		<description>@redda
Someone&#039;s got to do it.

Look, there&#039;s a simple moral point here. So far nobody has even attempted to answer it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@redda<br />
Someone&#8217;s got to do it.</p>
<p>Look, there&#8217;s a simple moral point here. So far nobody has even attempted to answer it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Sleep</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-294359</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Sleep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 15:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-294359</guid>
		<description>@ weenie
As you so astutely observe, I have NFC what &#039;cool&#039; is. However, I think we can agree that an image of pissed old hippies is unlikely to appeal to the ad industry despite the unexploited product placement opportunities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ weenie<br />
As you so astutely observe, I have NFC what &#8216;cool&#8217; is. However, I think we can agree that an image of pissed old hippies is unlikely to appeal to the ad industry despite the unexploited product placement opportunities.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Sleep</title>
		<link>http://www.photoinduced.com/1897/pilfered-a-cool-new-online-mag-with-a-provacative-name/comment-page-1/#comment-294326</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Sleep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 13:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.photoinduced.com/?p=1897#comment-294326</guid>
		<description>@RUDJ

You&#039;re right about that. This particular revolution is one of seduction, of those who confuse &#039;free&#039; with freedom. All that&#039;s happening here is a concentration of wealth and power and viewpoint into the hands of a new generation of aggregators and distributors, Google, Yahoo, Getty and a thousand others who feed off creators. They are replacing the older forms, the publishers, film and music companies, whose monopoly misuse of copyright the exploited public are only too happy to repay with theft.

In the new model, creators&#039; copyright is an inconvenience, an inhibition to aggregation from which value can be realised. The new ecology is dog-steal-from-dog, beneath the veneer of sharing as a cultural right.

Don&#039;t get me wrong. I utterly support and celebrate sharing and the democratisation of access and expression that Web 2.0 faciilitates, the same as you. But I see the collateral damage too. Some media are able to adapt as old business models have been destroyed, eg musicians have managed to escape their reliance on CD sales and now support their work through self-publishing, merchandising and live performance. &#039;Real artists&#039; major value was always in originals anyhow. But photography is an disaster area because it&#039;s primary asset always was its reproduceability. Those who control that own any value, and that&#039;s no longer the people who make the work, but those who distribute it. Even microstock is in trouble now, increasingly eclipsed by free. &#039;Free and good enough&#039; is completely superseding good by the standards of the medium itself. 

Pilfered&#039;s target audience and contributors are, for sure, believers in this seduction. The promise of recognition here is dangled commercial opportunity, exposure to AD&#039;s and buyers; that alone allegedly differentiates it from any other rights-abusing publisher. But one can, after all, look at pictures around the web without it, and if sharing inspiration was the intent a list of bookmarks would do the job ethically. 

One may as well play the lottery as chase this myth. Photography as a profession is being murdered by photographers clambering over each other and themselves, anxious for a byline that says &#039;you&#039;re good&#039;, as deluded as sub-prime bankers who thought their models worked. Yes, there is still a high end, but crowded with more and more people chasing less and and less work. Even Liebowitz is in the hole.

So in Photography 2.0 the whole ecology has been wrecked. It&#039;s no longer possible for people to build careers and sustain themselves whilst they hone their vision and craft and minds. Famous for 1/60th sec is a good as it gets, and onscreen long enough for some ad exec to pillage the idea and build himself a reputation.

If people want to go along with this, fine, it&#039;s their choice, as it has been all along. But that makes it even more important to bloody well ask them, and to credit their work if they agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@RUDJ</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right about that. This particular revolution is one of seduction, of those who confuse &#8216;free&#8217; with freedom. All that&#8217;s happening here is a concentration of wealth and power and viewpoint into the hands of a new generation of aggregators and distributors, Google, Yahoo, Getty and a thousand others who feed off creators. They are replacing the older forms, the publishers, film and music companies, whose monopoly misuse of copyright the exploited public are only too happy to repay with theft.</p>
<p>In the new model, creators&#8217; copyright is an inconvenience, an inhibition to aggregation from which value can be realised. The new ecology is dog-steal-from-dog, beneath the veneer of sharing as a cultural right.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong. I utterly support and celebrate sharing and the democratisation of access and expression that Web 2.0 faciilitates, the same as you. But I see the collateral damage too. Some media are able to adapt as old business models have been destroyed, eg musicians have managed to escape their reliance on CD sales and now support their work through self-publishing, merchandising and live performance. &#8216;Real artists&#8217; major value was always in originals anyhow. But photography is an disaster area because it&#8217;s primary asset always was its reproduceability. Those who control that own any value, and that&#8217;s no longer the people who make the work, but those who distribute it. Even microstock is in trouble now, increasingly eclipsed by free. &#8216;Free and good enough&#8217; is completely superseding good by the standards of the medium itself. </p>
<p>Pilfered&#8217;s target audience and contributors are, for sure, believers in this seduction. The promise of recognition here is dangled commercial opportunity, exposure to AD&#8217;s and buyers; that alone allegedly differentiates it from any other rights-abusing publisher. But one can, after all, look at pictures around the web without it, and if sharing inspiration was the intent a list of bookmarks would do the job ethically. </p>
<p>One may as well play the lottery as chase this myth. Photography as a profession is being murdered by photographers clambering over each other and themselves, anxious for a byline that says &#8216;you&#8217;re good&#8217;, as deluded as sub-prime bankers who thought their models worked. Yes, there is still a high end, but crowded with more and more people chasing less and and less work. Even Liebowitz is in the hole.</p>
<p>So in Photography 2.0 the whole ecology has been wrecked. It&#8217;s no longer possible for people to build careers and sustain themselves whilst they hone their vision and craft and minds. Famous for 1/60th sec is a good as it gets, and onscreen long enough for some ad exec to pillage the idea and build himself a reputation.</p>
<p>If people want to go along with this, fine, it&#8217;s their choice, as it has been all along. But that makes it even more important to bloody well ask them, and to credit their work if they agree.</p>
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